> First of all, let me put you in your place.

Wow! Is someone rather condescending! Who and what are you to put anyone in her place? You need to stay put in your place.

Georgie porgie pudding and pie
Tried shutting up China girl and making her cry
But when the girl spoke out their mind
Poor Georgie was left in a bind!

You are studying in
> Singapore to learn English.... that tells me everything right there.
> Everyone in China knows that the BEST students go to England to study
> English abroad. And the students who cannot afford a trip to England
> go to Australia. You must not have been such a good English student,
> or else why aren't you studying in England? It makes sense now.

Now now now, what kind of logic is this? Or is Georgie an elitist? Such generalisations and sweeping statements! Does that mean one who cannot afford an education abroad must be a poor student? God help this bloke!

> Although the people in Singapore speak good English, most serious
> learners of English will go abroad and study in the UK, Canada, or
> AU. Well, the majority of students apply for those places.
> (I did not mention the USA for study because they make their visas
> nearly impossible for anyone to get nowdays.)

Aaaah! At last some acceptance that one from Singapore can speak good english! But still no cognizance of the economic reality. Perhaps, someone who cannot afford to travel and study abroad, in the eyes of our enlightened poster, is less than human!

> Okay, seeing that you are a second tier student from China, it tells
> me alot now.

What a conclusion! And with such telling effect! So, Georgie, I too should be right in making some of my own conclusions, too: best students in the west go to Harvard/ Cambridge/Oxford. Obviously, you are not a student from any of these institutions so you must be a second/third/fourth tier student, if you were a students at all. Perhaps, like many 'native' teachers you have a 'manufactured' qualification and that adds a lot to your sense of self-importance and superiority.

> No, you always seem to miss my point. My point is the
> "best" way to learn. I never said it was the
> "only" way, I simply said it was the best way to learn how
> to speak correctly is from a native.

Sorry, Georgie! It's you that seems to miss the point. It was you that started the thread, IMPLYING that only 'native' tecahers could teach English. Read and reread your posts on this thread. Don't just try to squirm away. Be a man and accept the fact that you've been bested in this debate, and that too by 'nonnatives'. Later, of course, you might have said this or that was the 'best' way but at no point have you accepted the fact that nonnatives, too can make good teachers.

You point about Da Shan is
> invalid because:
> A. he teaches basic Chinese to foreigners, he is not trying to teach
> an advance communication Mandarin course. Just the basics.
> B. he uses many Chinese people on his program to give the viewers a
> chance to hear the words spoken by a native Chinese person.

Well, so is yours, because Da Shan also uses nonnatives to teach Chinese. And, btw, isn't Da Shan the one leading the programe? Doesn't that in itself say something?

> Also, the majority is in my favour. As you can clearly see on this
> website and many more, people want to learn from native speakers....
> I wonder why. Are they all st##id, or maybe is there some good reason
> why......

What majority and where? And does support of any majority imply that the monority are 'ALL WRONG'?

> Now, you study in Singapore, that is just great. But, do you really
> think when you apply for a job with some big company or whatever, do
> you think they are going to respect someone who studied English in
> Singapore or England more??? The obvious answer is England. Maybe you
> don't think that way, but most bosses in China do, and you know it.

Are you talking about learning Enlgish or finding a job? And if it's the job situation you're talking about, there are enough people/employers in China who values the ability and not merely the background!

> YOU WILL NEVER, be able to prove me wrong or get your points across
> to me unless one of the following happens:

> 1. International House (IH) and English First (EF) no longer want to
> hire only native speakers to teach English, they must write on their
> website, that they will accept teachers from any country with any
> passport.

> 2. Berlitz or Pimsluer learning systems publish a statement saying
> that it is a good way to learn to speak another language from
> non-natives.

> 3. CCTV9 and China Daily do a survey of students in middle schools,
> high schools, colleges, and universities throughout China, and they
> can prove with a 2/3 majority that learning spoken English from
> native speakers is useless and ineffective.

> Until you can make one of the above choices a reality, please do not
> bother me any further.

You've raised these very same points elsewhere on this message board and have been duly rebutted. Please sit back and lick your wounds!

Your words are shallow
Your beliefs hollow
Don't just cower at home
And in self-pity wallow!

If you're afraid of losing your vaunted pedestal, try and do something about it like acquiring additional skills. That will help you a lot more than simply trying to verbally bash nonnative English speakers and teachers!