TEACHERS DISCUSSION FORUM
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#1 Parent Lotus Blossom - 2017-10-08
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

Who are the REAL professionals on here? I can't see and read any!

I am not talking about the pretend academics on boards like this ( FT in PRC, "caring", Mr Here to Talk Shit, etc ) I mean REAL professionals.
#2 Parent Silverboy - 2017-10-08
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

Well I actually agree with something you said!

YOU BET, there is nothing special about Australia or it's culture in 2017, that's for sure!

I even told people not to visit Brisbane my home city, that's how much I love it, LOL!

Sure, in the 70's. 80's, 90's, Australia had great television a thriving and creative music scene, film, art, a few decent politicians,
no PC, now it's gone to shit.

Just watch the "Today" show or "Sunrise" where advertising becomes a story, to see how great Australian culture is these days, or reality rubbish like "Married At First Sight"

And I love Brisbane so much I even posted a link to a You Tube video on here ( from another Brisbane bloke) to tell everyone it's sucks, it's crap, haha!

#3 Parent lestyouforget - 2017-10-08
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules


I've been saying it for years: These people are self-serving and think they are a superior
race.

There is nothing special about China, it's people, or the "culture" and never has
been.

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I've been saying it for years: These uneducated folks -such as yourself - are self serving and think they are a superior race.

There is nothing special about Australia, it's people or the "culture" and never has been.

It's fairly standard behavior for those with a diminished world view and a recognition of their own worthlessness to disparage others. Moreover, those who denigrate an entire race merely reveal the shallowness of their thinking. Nothing new about that for the Silvertoddler - it's his trollish modus operandi.

#4 Parent Silverboy - 2017-10-07
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

I've been saying it for years: These people are self-serving and think they are a superior race.

There is nothing special about China, it's people, or the "culture" and never has been.

#5 Parent Dragonized - 2017-10-05
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

The stingy, skinflint ways of the chinese aren't just reflected in money, but with their attitudes towards other people. Dealing with chinese from mainland china you always feel like you get less from them after even a simple conversation. It's embedded in the nature of these people to take and take. May God have mercy on them all.

#6 Parent Silverboy - 2017-10-08
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

50 or 60,000 rmb a month is not much if you change it into USD or AUD.

I said that 35,000 to 45,000 rmb a month should be the MINIMUM base salary for real Western academics in China. In other more serious Asian nations it should be much higher.

I am not talking about the pretend academics on boards like this ( FT in PRC, "caring", Mr Here to Talk Shit, etc ) I mean REAL professionals.

I don't just mean English teachers, who are basically useless anyway as students can learn languages well without teachers. I mean many other types of academics in China and other places.

#7 Parent Concerned FT - 2017-10-05
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

What? You must be joking! In the Western part of the world, the minimum salary for a qualified degree holder in a company or business is between 50,000 to 60,000 RMB (the equivalent thereof); for university lecturers and professors it is even slightly higher combined with a lower weekly teaching load allowing for research and other administrative duties like student counseling, grading student work, preparing lectures. Unlike in China, in Korea and other Western unis, lecturers and professors have their own office, sometimes with a secretary working full-time for the same and paid by the university. In this respect, Chinese unis and their pay are a joke and do not provide an environment that is appropriate to stimulate and conduct decent research on anything.

"Yes, 35,000 to 40,000 rmb a month would be a good starting salary if the Chinese really want qualified Westerners with education degrees".

#8 Parent Silverboy - 2017-10-05
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

Yes, 35,000 to 40,000 rmb a month would be a good starting salary if the Chinese really want qualified Westerners with education degrees.

They won't do that however as they are a bunch of greedy and stingy fuckers who thinks foreigners should work for them for free.

It not just in teaching either, in many different fields.

#9 Parent Silverboy - 2017-10-02
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

The two issues are not related to one another. A Chinese female teacher working part-time as a prostitute has nothing to do with fake degrees.

Female teachers who work part-time as prostitutes should not be telling students to be "traditional" or not to have sex outside of marriage.

I've never ever told anyone it not ok to use fake degrees. If people want to use them that's their business. Not for me ( or you ) to pass judgement.

I only warn some individuals that it is very risky to use a fake degree in some countries. Thailand is a prime example. I would not use a fake degree in Thailand, but not because of moral concerns or the welfare of students. A degree for ESL is useless anyway unless it is a proper teaching degree.

Even a proper degree in education is a waste of time and money to use teaching ESL in China.

#10 Parent SuperKupo - 2017-10-02
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

Reality check. If they want certified teachers I hope that Chinese schools and training centers are willing to pay 35-40k RMB plus fancy downtown apartment and other benefits for no more than 12 teaching hours a week, otherwise they won't get anyone.

#11 Parent Concerned FT - 2017-10-02
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

Well, here at least you are inconsistent and do not tell the truth. You contradict yourself. Perhaps it's on me now to tell you "to get lost"? Well, GET LOST!

“I support the use of fake degrees where it is safe to do so.
People like you are GW pro-China lackeys. Get lost.”

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.pl?read=135641

“Well I think people should be consistent and tell the truth”.

http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.pl?read=135635

#12 Parent Concerned FT - 2017-10-01
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

There are several good reasons why decent FTs should care. One of them is that decent FTs have all their right to complain about dishonest schools and publicly shame them - provided they themselves follow the ethical standards they reasonably expect from their employers. If you expect your employer to be honest and ethical in his/her business conduct, you have to be the same. Plain and simple.

"If you think teaching ESL in China is not a real job then why do you care if a teacher is using a fake degree there? I mean, where is the harm? Nobody is going to die or get injured because of it."
#13 Parent Silverboy - 2017-10-01
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

I support the use of fake degrees where it is safe to do so.

People like you are GW pro-China lackeys. Get lost.

#14 Parent Concerned FT - 2017-10-01
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

Why the hell should I care? Fake degree holders do not care either about those holding legitimate degrees by making the lives of those with legitimate degrees more difficult.I believe decent FTs should do their best to get rid of low-lives in their midst as they give all of us a bad name.

"As for your snitching on another laowai, that is deplorable and disgraceful imo. Why would you even consider helping and supporting the Chinese PSB? A total sell out action I think. Are you a Westerner or a Chinese?"

#15 Parent Silverboy - 2017-10-01
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

If you think teaching ESL in China is not a real job then why do you care if a teacher is using a fake degree there? I mean, where is the harm? Nobody is going to die or get injured because of it.

As for your snitching on another laowai, that is deplorable and disgraceful imo. Why would you even consider helping and supporting the Chinese PSB? A total sell out action I think. Are you a Westerner or a Chinese?

The only time I would report a foreigner in Asia to authorities is if they were claiming benefits abroad from their home country that they were not entitled to.

I know an American in China who was claiming certain veterans benefits he was not entitled to. Also, he was not paying his child support payments. Now,I'm anti-marriage and anti-family, but if a man and woman do have a kid together they have certain financial responsibilities toward that kid. A USA friend on mine reported this individual to the relevant authorities in the USA, IRS, etc, as he is defrauding the US taxpayer.

If I knew an Australian living in Asia who was cheating the Australian taxpayer I'd report him/her. As for other foreigners, I don't care what they do.

#16 Parent Concerned FT - 2017-10-01
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

I agree wit the bit on ESL that it is not a real job - especially in China. I do not agree with denying that using fake degrees is immoral. Teaching is multi-faceted and is certainly more than only teaching ESL at places like Meten or EF.

More recently, I had contacted immigration to report a Western low-life using a fake degree and working illegally on an L visa. My PSB contact sent me a short message later that the person was arrested for interrogation, had to pay a heavy fine and was escorted to the airport to take a flight home. He lost the apartment that he had invested so much before. An idiot and drunkard who was simply a waste of space!

"My degrees are real, but I don't consider the use of fake degrees in ESL teaching to be immoral or unethical. ESL is a bullshit "profession" that can't be and should not be taken seriously."

#17 Parent Silverboy - 2017-10-01
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

My degrees are real, but I don't consider the use of fake degrees in ESL teaching to be immoral or unethical. ESL is a bullshit "profession" that can't be and should not be taken seriously.

It is not as if lives are at risk if an ESL teacher uses a fake degree. Obviously an airline pilot or a medical professional should be properly qualified and fake degrees/documents should be illegal in these professions.

The same thing in construction, unqualified engineers and tradesmen put lives at risk.

As for the Chinese, they lie, cheat, steal, on a daily basis. It's been like that for years and years. The Chinese will get what they deserve. ESL is a superfluous industry anyway, teachers are not needed to learn languages and there is voluminous evidence to support this argument.

I only mentioned that people should not use fake degrees in Thailand because of the penalties involved for those who are caught. It is not because I think it is immoral to use a fake degree in Thailand or because I think Thai students deserve "proper ESL teachers".

I don't care about Thai or Chinese students or their welfare. I have been, and have only always been in Asia for the girls and the beer.

In Thailand the girls are definitely the best! Pattaya, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeah!

#18 Parent Concerned FT - 2017-09-30
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

For sure. Agreed.

"Using any kind of fake degree for anything is bad. You either get a real degree or you don't. Simple. "

#19 Parent Concerned FT - 2017-09-30
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

These Chinese "schools" are part of the problem and should be blamed and brought to the attention of the authorities concerned as well.

"I wouldn't agree with using fake degrees at all, as I've just mentioned in another response. However, it's a two way process. Chinese schools need to stop using fake schools, fake jobs, fake teachers etc. Then they will have every moral right to clamp down on the use of fake documents."

#20 Parent John O'Shei - 2017-09-30
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

Using any kind of fake degree for anything is bad. You either get a real degree or you don't. Simple.

#21 Parent John O'Shei - 2017-09-30
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

I wouldn't agree with using fake degrees at all, as I've just mentioned in another response. However, it's a two way process. Chinese schools need to stop using fake schools, fake jobs, fake teachers etc. Then they will have every moral right to clamp down on the use of fake documents.

#22 Parent Concerned FT - 2017-09-30
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

It is about teaching abroad in general, not necessarily about teaching ESL only. I am sure you won't like your children to be taught by semi-literates or pretenders, right?

Did you ever use fake degrees yourself if you condone the same for ESL?

As for ethical or moral issues: it is about integrity in education; and when people do not bother to use fake degrees, then countries like Thailand or China are right in taking appropriate counter-measures to impose heavy punishment and fines onto those who are found out. I for my part won't let it ride.

"As for Thailand, the problem is that degrees are in fact verified and checked very carefully there, and penalties for using a fake degree can be up to several months in prison and large fines. Some USA teachers were in fact jailed in Bangkok for several months a few years back.

Teachers should not use fake documents in Thailand, the penalty is very severe. I for one think it's ok for people to use fake degrees to get an ESL job".

#23 Parent Silverboy - 2017-09-30
Re Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

They are just shit ESL jobs, who cares if someone uses a fake/forged degree, whatever.

The pay is shit, ESL is not for young people. For the semi-retired older men it may have been ok in the past to work two or three days a week at a university in China.

As for Thailand, the problem is that degrees are in fact verified and checked very carefully there, and penalties for using a fake degree can be up to several months in prison and large fines. Some USA teachers were in fact jailed in Bangkok for several months a few years back.

Teachers should not use fake documents in Thailand, the penalty is very severe. I for one think it's ok for people to use fake degrees to get an ESL job.

It is not a moral or ethical issue.

Concerned FT - 2017-10-02
Thailand and China tightening up immigration rules

It’s not only China but also Thailand now to tighten up its immigration rules for working there legally:

http://www.eslbase.com/forum/viewtopic/tefl-trained-teacher-with-experience-but-no-degree/

Understandably, many of those without a degree and desperate for an ESL teaching job feel tempted to use fake degree documents to cheat their employers and immigration in their host countries. Apart from the fact that fake is fake and such a thing is indeed a low-life thing to do, officials in those nations concerned are not stupid and may require degrees to be authenticated, the latter of which is not not only a lengthy and expensive process but also a bureaucratic hassle. It’s a good example of how the low-life behavior of some not-so-decent F”T”s can have a negative impact on all other, more decent FTs. The actions of such non-degreed F”T”s are entirely selfish and therefore will have to be brought to the attention of the authorities concerned. I have no sympathy with any of them, and if I knew of some of these folks working illegally somewhere, I I would follow up on them wherever and whenever I can. Nothing wrong with that as I simply would defend my own status as a legitimate degree holder with a legitimate working visa. I can’t allow these low-lives to get away with their cheat as it may have negative impacts on all of us.

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